009 Artist Mackenzie combines coloring with sketching and writing to free her up from stress and worry, making way for vision clarity so the ideas can flow.
Special Guest Mackenzie Bakewell is a multimedia artist and author based in the Pacific Northwest. She is the author of Coloring is Good for You: 13 Reasons to Color Daily and the creator of Journey of Colors, a coloring book product line made for people of all ages to relax, get creative, and have fun making art in their everyday lives. Mackenzie’s work is inspired by her lifetime of exploring nature and new places with her camera and sketchbook in hand.
Join the conversation on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/chrisnixon/
Detailed Show Notes With Transcript: https://chrisnixon.com/episode-9/
GUEST LINKS For: Mackenzie Bakewell
Website: https://www.JourneyofColors.com
Tools mentioned in this episode:
- Rocketbook – https://getrocketbook.com/
- Journey of Colors book – https://journeyofcolors.com/about/
- Trello – https://trello.com
- G-Suite by Google – https://workspace.google.com/
- Bullet Journal – https://bulletjournal.com/
- Evernote – https://evernote.com/
- Asana – https://asana.com
BOOKS
Journey of Colors – https://journeyofcolors.com/about/
Moonwalking with Einstein: The Art and Science of Remembering Everything – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonwalking_with_Einstein
The Power of Habit – https://charlesduhigg.com/the-power-of-habit/
LINKS
Website: https://chrisnixon.com
Blog: https://chrisnixon.com/blog
Podcast: https://chrisnixon.com/podcast
SOCIAL
LinkedIn: https://chrisnixon.com/linkedin
Facebook: https://chrisnixon.com/facebook
All socials: https://linktr.ee/chrisnixon
**This episode Copyright © 2022 Chris Nixon***
Music: spacedust by airtone (c) copyright 2022 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution (3.0) license. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/64741
Chris
What is your name? And what field of work are you in?
Mackenzie
Hi yeah, thank you so much for having me. My name is Mackenzie and I am an artist and author based in the Pacific Northwest. My work is a mix of photography, graphic design and illustration as well as publishing.
Chris
So a goal, a goal planning system is a set of tools that takes you from vision to achievement. It’s all the tools in between right from setting that vision all the way down to. How you track and manage your tasks. The head. Everything in between. So during this podcast series, we’re talking about these planning systems and people’s journeys to discovering what works best for them in that regard. So with that in mind, tell us what sort of a goal planning system do you use and how does that play a part in what you’ve described.
Mackenzie
Yeah, so I use a mix. Up print and digital tools. My goal planning all starts with the. Creative downloading I like to call it usually when the sketchbook, often a brainstorming session and that’s when I just visualize what it is I’m aiming for and having that. Sketchbook place to just jot down. Notes very free form. Yeah, creative flow letting the idea formulate so that I know what it is I’m aiming for. Then I like to use a tool. It’s called the Rocketbook and I don’t know if you’ve heard of that it. It’s essentially a notebook that is like a whiteboard paper, so you can.
Chris
Right?
Mackenzie
Right in it, and then you scan it and it goes on to a digital format and then you can wipe wipe it clean, which I really find has been fantastic. So that also gets. Tangible notes, action items, things that I want to then be able to put on my computer and work with more closely and then.
Chris
So is that something that you put in the microwave to?
Mackenzie
Oh, I haven’t microwaved. I use. It’s a little water spritzer in a micro fiber cloth, yeah?
Chris
OK, so you actually wipe it off OK.
Mackenzie
Yeah, you actually wipe it off, which has. A very soothing kind of a Zen activity. To it of. Clearing away the ideas of knowing you’ve made some progress on them. And then the third part of my system after the visualization sketchbook, the Rocketbook that gets the action items and gets the things digitized is then. My I use a coloring journal which is actually something that I’ve created with my family and published through our company. And that is a mix. Of coloring design pages with lined pages so it’s a nice simple 6 by 9 journal and in that I do my daily check in so that is usually in the evening when I’m done with my work day. I start with a little coloring because that just helps. Drown me into the present moment taps into a little mindfulness. I can just replay the day in my mind and then I write down some of the key things that I achieved that day. Little notes of celebration. Just anything that was noteworthy. So that way I have something to easily reflect back on, and is something that I can. Keep with me. A reminder of what I’ve accomplished and is really inspiration, as well as a tool for tracking and record keeping.
Chris
OK, so I’m really interested in this. The coloring and transitioning into the journaling. So are there different designs every day and you just randomly choose one? How do you choose?
Mackenzie
Yeah, so I have it laid out so there’s one coloring page and then seven lined pages.
Chris
What the color?
Mackenzie
So throughout the journal there’s 12 different. So the concept is each day is about a week or sometimes each. I mean each page in the journal I write. Maybe one a day. So therefore each illustration I’m coloring throughout the full week and so I just start in on one illustration and I write in the pages after it until I’m through with that section and then start a new section and it kind of keeps a nice rhythm.
Chris
OK.
Mackenzie
To my process.
Chris
And are the coloring pages abstract designs or are they actual characters or what are?
Mackenzie
Yeah, the yeah the.
Speaker
We looking at.
Mackenzie
Yeah, the books that I’ve made so far I’ve created three and they’re all nature and animal themes, some of them are animal portraits. Some of them are playful adventure nature scenes and yeah, and they. They can be colored with pencils or crayons, but I often just use my ballpoint pen because it and just doodle and add textures and patterns with it. That way, as.
Chris
Well, OK, so it’s really about the tactile and the physical aspect of doing the coloring more than the. Colors and things that might come from.
Mackenzie
Yeah, and it can. It can go many ways. Worse, you know if you’re. Wanting to use all the colors, but sometimes I find just using one single pen. One color is able to really. Keep me focused on just a little bit of that time to tap into the mindfulness, and I’ve built a habit around it so that I kind of settle into that. That creative flow zone easily through the coloring. So then when I write in my journal with keeping track of what I’ve done that day or. What successes I’ve had in my business or my project? I’m able to be really present and clear minded and focused.
Chris
So how do you know then to switch gears so you start coloring? What kind of signal do you get or feeling? Do you get that says OK, it’s time to write.
Mackenzie
That’s a really good question. I’d say it’s once in my mind. I have sort of walked through my day and I have seeing sort of replayed what you know the highlights the little lights gotten to be. Oh yeah, there’s the point of that’s worth remembering. That’s where I had a success. That was really, you know, maybe that was a challenge. But I overclaim it and so once I sort of have in my. Mind a few key points or the memory start flowing into place because sometimes when you sit down after. The end of the day it’s. Just like your mind can be a jumble you feel really mentally exhausted and so the coloring kind of gives me a little pick me up and the time to just sit, still, be contemplative, and reflect on you know how. Things went for the day.
Chris
And if you start to feel writers block, do you flip back to coloring a little bit?
Mackenzie
I do yes. It’s really it actually is really good for. Yeah, getting out of and that’s one of the reasons I started doing. This I had found with using coloring books and things like that it would spark my writing. I would be coloring and then I wasn’t creative. Light bulb would go off and I whip out some paper and start writing and so I realized that the combination is really effective.
Chris
Wow, so let’s talk about that discovery a little bit. Yeah, how did you discover that this was your thing?
Mackenzie
Oh, that is. A wonderful question so. I started coloring myself back in 2015. Kind of around the time. Johanna Basford kind of blew up the adult coloring scene and I started hearing about how it was so relaxing and such. A great tool and really fun. And of course I hadn’t colored since I was. A child so. I started coloring a little bit and I found that it really. Loosened up my creative energy in my thoughts, and so I soon. In true, you know entrepreneurial illustrator. Fashion started creating my own coloring designs because I wanted ones that had a little more white space than a lot of the ones that I was finding in the market at that time. And so over the course of a handful of years I started. Publishing them more, sharing them with friends, and overtime developed a product line with it because. I realized there was there was a need that I was finding for myself that I really enjoyed using coloring to help me relax and just to have that. Bite sized bit of art making that I could add into every day.
Speaker
OK.
Chris
So what did you discover after you started using that technique, then with the coloring, what did you discover about yourself?
Mackenzie
Yeah, well, I discovered that it’s. Easier than I thought to. Refuel my creativity and that you do have to make a habit of it, though to find that time to. Relax and be still and allow ideas to process and come to you. And so I find that’s where it links in with the writing when I am sitting there, coloring whether I’m talking to people or just by myself. It’s naturally I’ve done research on it now. Coloring naturally is very meditative and draws you into the present moment and has that very. Mind soothing elements to it, and so I noticed that when I would color I would just. Not only feel the relaxation benefits, but my mind would kind of let go of stress and worries so that Ideas and clarity of vision could fill in that place instead.
Chris
Wow, yeah. So let’s talk about behind the rocket book a little bit so you scan it from the rocket book where does. It go from there.
Mackenzie
Yeah, it goes into Google Drive. I have it set up. You can set it up with Dropbox and all the various other cloud options I happen to like the Google Suite because it’s just cross-platform, very accessible and so. The with the Rocketbook. What’s really cool is it can actually transcribe your writing as well as create checklists and also just a PDF image of whatever you wrote. So a lot of my. Rocketbook notes sometimes they’re kind of. It is half illustration, half text, so then I use that to be the launching pad for an illustration or a book design. Other times, they’re very much like, oh, this a whole outline of. An article or an ebook or a project and so. From there it’s in Google Drive so I can access it, and then I’ve also started using the app called Trello. Have you heard of? That one sure have. Yeah, yeah, and so I’ve started. I used that one as well for just. You know those really easy, like, uh, tangible check offs and some accountability? Sharing with other colleagues and stuff to have shared project boards and things so that from the Trello I can. I try not to have. Stored where I really invested in that system because I find sometimes apps make changes in some way, I’m not. Pleased with them so I like to keep that. More of like, hey, here’s an action item because they make it really inviting and easy to check things off and. Share links and stuff, but outside of that it yeah the Rocketbook is the. Kind of the way that I can go from handwriting. And then into the digital.
Chris
So can we dig just a little deeper into the Google Drive then what? What does that look like? Is it Google Docs?
Mackenzie
Yes, so Google Drive I use. The whole G suite as they like to call it. I use a lot of the Google forms for things like. Project client contracts and for having submissions for things like wholesale orders and whatnot, for what I’m selling my. Books and so I have a whole, you know, the various folders in my Google account for, you know. OK, here’s these contract forms. Here’s where I do my writing. Here’s photos and media kit things that I want to be able to access easily and.
Chris
So you’ve got lots of different reference folders organized by folder naming.
Mackenzie
Yeah, so that yeah so. That way when I go from. At my computer. Where I’ve got all my files to out on the go on the phone and you want to be able to, you know. Real quick productivity wise send somebody a reply and be able to include the appropriate information. Those essentials I like to keep in a cloud document or a cloud folder and then for projects themselves. I have a. And usually have. One Google doc file for the month that is just where I go to write everything. Because I find that if I write in too many different apps or emails you know then you’re like, oh, that was great. What I wrote I want. To reclip that to use it again I like. Just having it in one. One file so that I just get all my first draft writing there and some of it’s. Blog posts some of its emails. Some of its ideas and, and that’s just sort of A11 key piece of that part, yeah?
Chris
That file can get pretty long, some months, I’ll bet.
Mackenzie
He can, yeah, but it’s nice to. Again, minimizing the quantity of files is one thing that I’ve worked hard on with my productivity is. And why I like thee. The mix of the Rocketbook and the Coloring journal is that keeps things offline where it’s hands on writing. Because I find I really. My ideas flow more fluidly from my mind to a handwritten pen and pencil. And it keeps you know we do so much of our work digitally these days that I like. To keep a little. Bit old school and traditional pen and paper.
Chris
So if we really look down deep at the, you know the basic to do the next actions are those pretty well done before they hit the digital then or do you end up? Uploading checklist from Rocketbook that you need to do later.
Mackenzie
Yeah I do a bit of both. Yeah, I like to put the. Checklists on Rocketbook. Up into Google Drive and in there sometimes their their list that I will use again because there may be for a project like OK for whenever I do this type of project I need to hit all these bullets. So it’s like I get them written and then into the correct place and I really find that.
Chris
Ah yeah.
Mackenzie
For specific, tangible like OK tomorrow morning, I’ve got to do these three things I use either. The Trello app, or just put it in my calendar digital calendar of like? OK, at 9:00 o’clock. Do these three items or start? In on them because. I realized that I’ve I’ve done a lot of planners over the years, and. I got kind of tired of flipping through them later and like finding Nuggets of wisdom and then also just the same list of things that I needed to do so. I’ve kind of tried to streamline my process to minimize the. The you know, the excess of checklists.
Chris
What are some of the other things that you tried along? The way.
Mackenzie
Yeah, let’s see I’ve. I’ve tried bullet journals and I really liked elements of those, and so I’ve brought in that. Kind of that daily checklist and kind of the ability to fresh start each day, but I found that. I just didn’t stick with it. There was just some. I think just the system was a little too complicated for me and that’s why I like I kind of switched to the more simple the coloring journal has the creative art element that I liked in a lot of the bullet journals. I always loved you know everyone’s images. They’re bullet journals were so beautiful. I was like, oh, those are amazing, you know. But then for me it didn’t. Didn’t quite jibe and, uhm. I’ve tried so many different planners that have. Inspirational quotes and prompts and I can’t recall the names and brands of them now, but I always you know that was always a very big thing for me. But OK, I’m picking my planner for. The year which one is it going to be? And I’ve done a lot of different digital apps. From Evernote and Asana to just using Google Drive and the one thing I love about the apps is when you can have cross-platform between every computer you own your phone, your tablets. I love being able to access things that way, but I found I was getting a little too. Putting too much of like my ideas into the apps and then. Sometimes they would switch to like, oh, they’re premium membership changed and you’re or you’re this or that or they’re not. You know, it just would be. I realized they didn’t want to. Use them in a way where I was putting all my ideas into them rather than kind of a more just the prompts if that makes sense.
Chris
So you want to protect your intellectual property in a place that you can continue to hold.
Mackenzie
Yeah, exactly, and to access easily where it’s like. You know, even with. The one file on Google Drive that. I put, you know, type my ideas into. It’s nice like I can even just export that as a PDF at the end of the month and archive it, you know? And then I have my tangible journal and my Rocketbook files. Those all just get uploaded to the cloud and when I do my annual or quarterly cleaning of the digital system, I usually. You know, offload everything and back it up. On my home archives.
Chris
So what’s the very best part of the system for you?
Mackenzie
No word, I would say. I think the simplicity for. Me, I really. I’ve pared down a lot of my. My productivity system over the years and just I really enjoy the daily check-ins that I hold myself accountable to. You know, when you’re working home, it’s easy to just flow from the work day into. Home and then back and forth. And so I try to really have. That time with my journal be like OK, No, I’m turning off all the tech. I’m done with work for the day. I’m going to check in and take. A little log of. How it went and that that moment of quiet reflection is really a highlight for me.
Chris
So how do you do that? How do you stay accountable to doing that?
Mackenzie
Yeah, you know, I think. I worked really hard to build it as a habit. And I love the book power of habit and the learning about the cue routine reward process. And I have quite literally rewarded myself with chocolate on many, many occasions. Enough times that I could have craved that time of sitting down with my journal because I’d be like alright. I sit down and I. I get some chocolate and every time I. Do this and it sounds you know it’s I laugh because it’s it seems so silly it’s the same way I train my dog, you know, but it’s. Really it worked to help. You know encouraged me to do this thing that I had decided I. Wanted to show. Up for and show up for the check-ins. And I also AM. Flexible with myself where it doesn’t matter if I. Miss a day. You know it’s once I’ve built that habit, it’s. I’ve, you know, I’ve learned to accept that it’s OK to just oh missed a. Day, that’s OK.
Chris
It’s all about mindset, isn’t it? It’s how you talk to yourself when those situations occur. So then let’s go forward. Now to I missed it yesterday. Yeah, mine said at that point. What do you think?
Mackenzie
I’m mostly thinking that it’s, you know. Make sure that it doesn’t become that I. Stick with the. Habit and that it doesn’t, you know, a missed day or two.
Chris
OK.
Mackenzie
You know. Maybe you’re traveling. Maybe you’re this, you’re that. Is totally acceptable in my mind and whether. But I like to ensure that I check in again, you know, and. Just like hey OK yeah close up close up. Shop that day and read. Take note of a few things that were key.
Chris
And I, and I think that that’s so important. You know you said that it’s OK. Right, just that that’s what happens sometimes, and that’s part of our routine because we’re humans and we’re not 100% predictable all the time exactly. But if we turn around and tell ourselves that oh, I failed. Yeah, then that becomes our identity so I just love it that your identity is that’s OK and this my habit and this what I typically do. And that’s good, right?
Mackenzie
Yeah, thank you and it’s. It’s actually something that why I like the. You know, the combination of the ROCKETBOOK and the Coloring Journal and. Is that there’s no actual calendars in them, so you know in previous times, and I’d have a planner and I missed all these days where they had prompts to write about and fill in. It was like whole pages and sections of the planner I missed out on with the coloring journal since it’s just lined pages.
Speaker
OK.
Mackenzie
And the illustrations to color. It doesn’t matter if there’s a gap, you just keep going and. The same with how I now structure my digital checklists as I try to have. It being more of like OK, these are prompts. These are your priority, but sometimes new priorities come up in the day, so it’s you know it kind of. Yeah, keeping that mindset of it’s. It’s OK and there you there is a tool to help me remember. What to do? But what I’m actually doing can really vary. What’s important, you find that. In the moment.
Chris
Is there anything about your system that you’d like to improve that you’re kind of noodling on? You don’t quite know the solution, but that’s you think that there’s opportunity.
Mackenzie
Yeah, I’d say it. Finding ways to. Really streamline the digital side of my work where it’s like OK, you know I. I love pouring ideas and mapping plans out onto paper, but then having it be a little more streamlined so that it’s. Doesn’t get lost in the digital world. Like I said in you know, once it’s in Google Drive or in your productivity app like Trello and stuff you’re like, you can build these boards and new lists really quickly and so trying to just ensure that I don’t get ahead of myself in my planning before I do the doing. You could say.
Chris
But how? Yeah, I guess it is definitely out of sight. Out of mind. We used to have to put things into boxes and hide them. Now we can just hit save. And it’s gone exactly, yeah?
Mackenzie
And there’s a beauty to that at times where you just want to idea, dump and then OK, that’s out for later, but. Yeah, it’s definitely the continuing to find time to. Kind of clear up the archives and go through things is, I think something that I’d still yeah working on working on with the system.
Chris
So would you mind sharing some successes that you credit to your system?
Mackenzie
I’d say. A big one has been in. Just the. The management of my of my mindset through my work and being able to. Calm, clear focus. Because I’ve been really. Analyzing myself and watching how I do things, being able to. You know, get up and know because I checked in the night before, I know what the priority is for that day ahead of time. And so that’s you know it’s maybe not a tangible goal, but it is such a huge one for me of having that mindset in a good place and the habit flow in a really good place.
Chris
How do you think it’s affected your time management? Your effective use of time, say?
Mackenzie
Yeah, I’d say it’s improved it because I’m. Able to be a bit more. Focused and not so you know, scattered with my ideas. I’ve worked a lot on honing things in so that. When I have the brilliant idea or a new project starting, I know where that information needs to go. You know, for example, I’m just starting a new book publishing project with a client and. I know I’ve already created previously the maps of the project and now I have a system in place where I know OK I can. I can write down this specific projects, outline that I need to get done in my rocket book. Get that up. Into my Google Drive for reference and then in Trello. Pop in the daily OK. This due next week, you know. Make sure you get the manuscript. Read and. Then with my journal I have that time. To really reflect to make sure I don’t. Get too. Bustling and buzzing in in my work that I can’t just come. Back to you. Know Ground Zero and be. Really calm and focused, so yeah, that kind of. That makes sense.
Chris
Yeah, so tell me about the accountability on the Trello experience. How does that?
Mackenzie
Go, oh, it’s really helpful we. Chat every couple weeks over, you know video chat and talk about how things are going and it’s for. We’re of different industries, but we’re both trying to write more articles and get our word out there and put ourselves out there with our work more and so. Having the Trello board, we at the end of our chaps would just share OK, here’s what I’m we’re aiming to achieve before we get together next and then we have a little system to be like, OK here. Move it to this board, it’s done. Or here’s a win to celebrate it. Like an article gets published or achieves something you were very excited about and so. Knowing that it’s. There’s someone else that you’re like, Oh yeah, I’m gonna. I’m have that accountability has been really, really positive and it motivates me to check in on that one and be like, OK, yeah, I worked on that perfect.
Chris
So back to the art. The coloring part of it. Should everybody try that, what yeah?
Mackenzie
I think so. I may be a little. Biased, but no, I really do. So I’ve been studying coloring as a tool for stress relief for relaxation and for creativity for a good number of years now, and I’ve written a book called coloring is good for you. 13 reasons to color daily, so I definitely believe in it and the reasons are. There’s so many known benefits to making art. And as somebody who has been an artist my whole life, I know that I. Know how to tap into them, but it’s also can be very challenging to sit down with a piece of white paper and make art. Even as somebody who does that and professionally can be challenging, so coloring takes away that initial you know. Need to know what you’re going to create and provide a an outlet so you can just drop right into making art. For anyone to do it, you know they it’s helps with relaxation. It helps with just. Taking that pause in our days, you know it’s gets you offline.
Speaker
To get.
Mackenzie
Just in your tangible reality, I always pair it. With some big deep breaths sit. A little bit of like grounding into the moment. And it really for me has been a hugely beneficial addition to my to my life.
Chris
So Jennifer says that she doesn’t have time for coloring, doesn’t have time for that kind of. Nonsense, what would you say?
Mackenzie
I would say you can make time for anything and that time is also what you make of it, and knowing your why is the key for me. I know that I want to color each day because. I’ve turned it into kind of an integrated self-care activity that makes self-care fun and as a creative an entrepreneur, you know everyone, anyone. We all have the need for keeping our. Happy, relaxed and fueled so that we can be creative because even if you don’t make art for a living. You use creativity in many ways and so. I think getting clear on why you know. Maybe you want to. Color because you’re improving your ability to use your imagination or you want to get better at making art. Or maybe it’s just because you want to start creating time for. Strain free relaxation or just carve out time in your day where you’re like, no. This recreation time, because when we’re really busy is when we need it the most. I’d say one other thing that has helped me with my productivity is. There’s a book called Moonwalking with Einstein that I’ve read and it’s. Outlines the concept of the memory palace. I’m not sure if you have you heard of that and.
Chris
I’ve heard a little bit about it. This rings a bell, be sure.
Mackenzie
Yeah, and so essentially it’s just teaching. It explores memory and how to use it, and how to activate it, and in that you know we. We remember spatially, you know, like you can always remember how to get to the kitchen in the house you’ve been to. Once you know that. Type of thing and so learning how to use my memory more. I found a good handful of years ago. I was outsourcing a lot of my memory to my devices. Oh the phone told me to do this. OK, I’ll go do it. OK, I’ll put input. Everything into my calendar. It will remind me at the right time to do. It, but by. Cultivating my own memory better and creating. A natural flow to my day that aligned with the natural cycle of the morning energy, the afternoon energy, the evening energy. That was probably those two things really helped with productivity because I was. You know, learning how to you know, train my own brain better and structure my day so that I was working around how I naturally, my energies naturally flowed.
Chris
So let me see if I understand this then if we go way back you were probably remembering everything in your mind and then you outsourced all of your memory to gadgets and systems. And then now you’ve kind of merged them back into more of a holistic flow throughout the day.
Mackenzie
Yeah, I think that’s. Really, what good way of? Putting it, you know it’s. I like to have the, you know, the tangible check-ins with. You know my coloring journal as well as I have times that I sit down and check in with my devices update. OK, I’m going to sit down and I’m going to write my To Do List for. Tomorrow on my phone, but that’s. I have built in that it’s. My memory has improved because I’ve been practicing it, so I often don’t have to rely on an alert telling me to do something. It’s more that I preplanned it, visualize the next day, and then I’m able to follow through with. You know, the references there of like, yeah, check off that and stuff, yeah?
Chris
Wonderful, yeah. So Mackenzie, I’d like to invite you to share about your business, the services you offer and how should people reach out to contact you.
Mackenzie
Yeah, definitely well. The biggest thing that I want to share is my coloring book collection and that you can find at journeyofcolors.com and that is where I share all the things I create. It’s got my coloring book. My coloring journals my coloring postcards, as well as other fun art that I. Just put up as I make it. And Umm, various print on demand. You know tote bags and T-shirts are coming. And so that’s really, you know. I encourage everyone to give coloring a try. And even if it’s just to be sitting and coloring to think about what you’re going to do the next day, that really is a great tool that I found for helping with that visualization process of. How the day is going to flow? And Umm, through that you can also. Find it you know there will be contact information on there so you can get in touch with me. If you’re curious about working with me, I do. If you’re in the area or nearby, I do custom photography as well as book editing and publishing for independent and do independent publishing for people so helping you. That you’re. Your story out there and yeah, and In. In addition to that offer just custom tailored creativity classes to help with. Understanding you know how to get going in your creative outlets.
Chris
Great, well thank you so much, Mackenzie.
Mackenzie
Yeah, thank you. It’s been a real pleasure to chat with you too. I’ve been they really enjoyed it. Thank you for having me.