004 Marci talks about how she has transitioned from a paper-based system to a hybrid electronic system, and how she uses her system to stay accountable.
Special Guest
Marci Grossman
Marci is a CPA with over 30 years of experience in public and private accounting. One of the most fulfilling parts of her job was educating clients about what the numbers meant. In 2021 she left the security of a ‘day-job’ to pursue her passion and wrote “MoneyMarci’s Guide to Financial Literacy” to focus her knowledge and efforts as a financial literacy educator and help people improve their relationship with money.
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Chris
I’d like to invite you to share your name and the field of work that you do.
Marci
Sure, my name is Marci Grossman and I’m known as money Marci, and I am a financial literacy educator.
Chris
That sounds exciting and important to a lot of people.
Marci
I hope so, I hope so. I like to think that I am I’m filling a need and really helping people.
Chris
I love it. I love helping people. Uh, we’re really starting to notice a lot of people surfacing that are in the field of just helping others, aren’t we?
Marci
I think so, I think so. Think we need it right now.
Chris
So, goal planning system is a set of tools that take you from vision to achievement, and during this podcast series we talk about goal planning systems and the journey to, you know, refine one that works best for you and really find what works best. So how does your goal planning system play a part in what you’ve described?
Marci
Well, everything. If I didn’t know where to be, what to do, I didn’t have an idea of what I was going to be doing next.
I wouldn’t actually be going anywhere. I live by my calendar system and my goal planning system.
Chris
So, tell me a little bit more about how you team. up on that system.
Marci
Well, actually, this is what we’ve ended up using as a family, because otherwise we’d find out we were all going in different directions, and no one knew where the other one had it to be. Or if I needed someone from something, I would assume I had told them and maybe I had what they did forget so we started using Google Calendar app that just I assume it just comes with Android phones.
I don’t think we had to download anything I could be wrong about that.
Uh, and it allows us to, if I can put on it my own things and not worry that it’s cluttering up anyone else’s calendar.
But I could also tag them in it and tag whoever needed to be tagged and they would get a calendar invite to put it on their own calendar so we would all know where each other was and so, I started using this for my business stuff.
So, I would schedule work time, I would schedule podcast, I would schedule things that I needed to do at a certain point in time and put them on the calendar.
And like I assume most calendar apps do, it would allow me to postpone things or change things as other things got in the way.
And it made it very, very much easier for me to know where to be I could schedule the amount of reminder time I needed and it just it just helped me be where I needed to be and get done what I needed to get done in a timely manner because I could schedule them, otherwise, I’d be a oh look squirrel kind of kind of activity.
Chris
Squirrels everywhere, aren’t there?
Marci
Oh, squirrels and butterflies.
Chris
So, I’m curious, how did your family take it at first when you presented this?
Or is this something that one of them presented to you is an idea?
Marci
I think it was my husband who presented what it was capable of doing. I had been kind of using it as I said I think it came with the phones and we’ve always been on androids, so we kind of used it for, you know, you put doctor appointments on it.
We put other special things, and then we just started realizing that it was our best way to communicate with each other in ways of things being remembered.
I’d say OK, I remember I told somebody this was happening.
I thought I told everybody, but I hadn’t told everybody.
But if I put it on the calendar, then everybody knows and it
cleaned up communication because we’re all busy, we’re all going in different directions and it’s hard to remember.
And if someone tells you something, that doesn’t mean you’re going to remember what it was or when it was, or what you needed to do and this just made communication much, much easier for all of us so no one had a problem.
It’s remembering who to tag for things.
We share a large office space in our home that we’re all in, but there are times when one of us is doing something that we really need everyone else to be out of the office and so we can put it in there with 1/2 hour or an hour reminder. Hey, I’m claiming the office at this point in time.
And everyone can make their arrangements and we like each other a whole lot better that way.
Chris
So, tell me, are there any other components to your system?
Like how do you for instance track your to-do items? Or do you have your goals written down somewhere or? What does that look like?
Marci
So, this is an app we did have to download.
It’s called to do and is actually free from the Play Store.
And it allows all different kinds of to do lists.
I have one that’s just groceries, and everyone can access that.
And if anyone oh, we’re out of milk, they just put it on that.
I don’t have to worry. Otherwise, I was living by post.
And you know if you’re in the wrong room or you don’t think to grab them when you go out the door, you don’t have it with you.
And this way I can walk out the door and say hey I’m heading to the store and people can be adding things to the To Do List and everything gets noticed.
You’re not having to deal with those pieces of paper. And again, it allows for a lot of different categories. Some are shared, some aren’t. Whether we’re doing vacation planning as a family, or I’m working at figuring out what my next few blog posts might be, or I read an article or have a discussion with someone and I’m like, that’s a great idea for a blog I have a category there, blog posts I want to do.
I have a category there of podcasts that I’ve been reached out to, but we haven’t scheduled yet so that I’ve got a list of them, and I can if I haven’t heard from them, I can nudge them after a few weeks or a month or say hey, are you still interested?
Uhm, it is everything and as I said, it’s nice because some lists are shared, and we each have our own lists that that are not shared.
For whatever various reasons and all the tasks that I want to do are there, sometimes I break them down, OK, this one has to be the first one. I’m working at building a teacher’s manual to go with my book. And so, there are certain things that have to happen in order for me to get that done. And certain things can be done here and here and whatever else, and then other things can’t be assembled until parts of it have been managed. And then so that allows me to organize my tasks as well as just keeping a list of them.
Chris
Right, right, right. So, what you’ve got your, your tasks and a lot of your ideas captured in there. What else do you keep in that system?
Marci
Oh well, I mean.
Most of the other stuff we keep in there is, you know, family related.
These are movies we want to see or movies that this person wants to see but that person doesn’t.
So, we can work on figuring out how to schedule, uh trips we want to take or local things we want to go do or I heard of this great new hamburger restaurant, so we got to put it on the list to make sure we get over there because you know a good hamburger is worth the trip. And uhm, and it’s just nice because it’s so flexible. Which comes to worse and say, oh, you know what, I need another category and add another category.
Or I need something and just tag the one person that I need to communicate with them on that and it’s just really convenient to always have it available?
You know the, 20 years ago, we all lived by our Franklin planners.
My phone is much more portable, and I can access everything on the computer as well as on the phone. So those days that my computer my phone dies and I have to wait for it on the charger.
I can still keep working and access the information that I need.
Chris
So that, some might call this an external brain really, it sounds like you’re getting, you know any thoughts out into the system and you’re keeping track of all the things that you need to do and ideas, uh, ideas for recreation for the family rate, back to ideas for your business. And uh, what do you think are some of the benefits to getting that stuff out of your head and into an external?
Marci
Well, there are two benefits. One is you; your brain can only hold so much.
And so, if I’ve got too many things going on, the next thing that comes in, I think it just bounces off and falls to the ground and never gets picked up again. The other thing is the things get in there, but you can’t necessarily access them when you want. And before I started using this for you know, the money Marci I would, something would happen I’m like, oh, that’s a great idea.
When I get home, I gotta remember to do that. And when I get home, I’d be oh, you know, I had this great idea out there and I don’t remember what it was.
And then I was like, you know what, I’ve got this app, we’re already using it for these other things. Why aren’t I also using it for my business. For the blogs, for chapters in the next book, for all these other things that I’m working on. And uh it’s been amazing because the brain has limits and it’s a disorganized file cabinet in there. Even if I remember the stuff being able to reach it at the point in time when I want to reach it, you know we all know those times.
We have a word or a reference and it’s on the tip of our tongue and we just you know, as soon as I start doing something else, it’ll come out at a very inconvenient time, but when I have time for it or need for it, it’s just not there.
Chris
Mm-hmm, you mentioned that you used the Franklin planner back in the day.
Marci
Oh yeah.
Chris
Would you like to share a little bit about how that worked for you?
Marci
Well, that was great.
I mean they had their calendar, and they had the notes section and all those things, but it was big.
You had to you had to either carry this big book around or you carried it in your purse or your briefcase. And a phone is so much more convenient. We put it in our pocket, we whatever, and it’s always with us. It accesses information a little bit differently. There was something to be said for being able to go and looked for prior meetings that was much easier in the Franklin planner. So those are systems you have to work around, I don’t think, I don’t think the electronic calendars are as good as uhm, searching those back things that it is just flipping through a book.
Uhm, but in every other way this is so superior and every year I don’t need to buy a new calendar because it’s always there.
Chris
Right. What about the tactile experience of writing things down versus, you know, tap tapping them into your phone or onto the computer. Do you find a difference?
Marci
That there is a difference I’m only recently starting to use the audio input on typing these things in and that helps too. I know they’ve done studies that you’re more likely to remember, things that you write and things that you type. I don’t know how true that is, or if it’s just our brains have to evolve to that on the flip side, if I’m putting it in my phone and I can access it anywhere, it doesn’t matter if I remember it the same way I might have remembered something I wrote down. Uhm, I do miss the tactile, however, my handwriting has always been horrible, and even if I find my notes, I can’t always read them, so this makes up for it even if I misspell a word. It’s way easier to read than what I used to write.
Chris
I know personally I like you see; the most important thing is to remember it. So, for me, having an electronic system accessible, I don’t have to worry about remembering it anymore. It is my external brain. However, the tactile experience of writing down thoughts and maybe ideas that I’m still fleshing out, I find helps be with the creative process of developing them a little bit.
Marci
Well, I still have my sticky notes all over the place. Uhm, you know, there are times there are things that just need a sticky note, but with the big things that I need to hold onto, I need in a safer place than a random sticky notes that gets misplaced.
I still write music and other things like that by hand rather than at the computer or the phone. But uh, I’m not sure if that’s so much tactile or just that’s easier as I scratch things out and change them and try to find meters and rhythms that fit. So, everything is going to have a positive and a negative and you just have to find the balance, the balance that makes it work for you.
Chris
Would you like to share any a little bit about the transition between or from the Franklin era to the electronic era. Did you try other systems in between?
Did you end up falling off one before you started the next?
How did that look like?
Marci
Well, since I only started money Marci within the last year.
Before that I was working as a controller at a faith-based nonprofit. So, while we were using the TO DO in the Google Calendar at home, I was using a physical calendar book and the Google uh, outlook for work because that’s what everyone used there.
So, my Franklin days kind of transferred to outlook and the bigger calendar book that everyone used at the office and while my home transitioned to the two apps and then as I left there, transitioning to this to be how the rest of my life was running wasn’t so different.
And because I transitioned to the calendar and the outlook and everything in the way it worked at the office from the Franklin Planner, it wasn’t as big of a step. It was just kind of its own intermediate step because there was still some paper. And outlook with the whole everything that’s part of Outlook was more like a digital full Franklin planner on everything.
I know I didn’t use all of things on it. It may have had a planner. I don’t really like it on the phone, for these things I prefer using these two apps that I’m using than to use Outlook on the phone. But I’m sure there are other people that that will say outlook is the bomb.
So, I guess it’s just finding what works best with your brain and the way you want to access and process things.
Chris
Absolutely, one of the things that I believe is most important is finding something that works well without friction, so you’re not really resistant to using it, but even as much as being attracted to using it. What did you notice when you first started using this. The electronic systems. Was there friction there?
Marci
Well, the friction would be that you can’t access things the same way in an electronic device the way you do in a book. I mean, there’s something whether it’s the tactile or just the way you can see pages at a time, or it’s easier to flip through pages. On a physical book, you can turn 20 pages at a time if you know what you want is far distant from where you’re physically located.
And some of the apps on the phone, you can really only go one screen at a time, so it’s not as fast to get from one place to another on the digital, on the flip side, the fact that it was always available and easy to have with me helped to ease that I am known for misplacing things on a regular basis. There’s probably three coffee cups around the house right now with my name on them from the last two days. And since I’m the only one who drinks coffee there, we hear we know it’s mine, so I can’t even pin it on anybody else.
And uh, you know, if it was the same way with a hard with a hard Franklin planner or any kind of physical calendar, when you put it down, you can’t call it to have it beep, too. And that’s helped ease the friction in that I always was able to locate the device. So, so the positive on one side, the negative on the other and then you find the balance and you work down the rough spots as you just get used to the resources that are available.
Chris
How do you think your life would have been different, say, 20 years ago if you’d had the system that you have now?
Marci
Uhm, well, I wouldn’t have spent as much time trying to remember where I put it because I could have just called it. But I think everything that I used there is in this I don’t know other than the sharing. The sharing was not available with the paper copies. I couldn’t push a button on my on my paper copy Franklin and make sure it got to everyone else’s counting information, so that makes the sharing aspect makes the family parts of it way more way more possible.
Chris
I think you mentioned that your husband got on board 1st and then introduced it to you.
Did you have any trouble getting the rest of the family on board.?
Marci
No, they were just as happy to not be nagged about things that we thought we had told them.
Things we were sure we had told them, and they didn’t remember.
And now, we could all be on the same page and that was actually easier for everybody and
my kids obviously are younger than my husband and myself, so for them it was a very easy transaction, they’ve grown up in a digital world.
Chris
So, are they taking after you and utilizing this for their own things too, even when it’s not involving them?
Marci
That’s a great question, but I have no idea because the parts that don’t involve me, I don’t know.
But I do know they’re getting where they need to be when they have to be there, so they must be using something to get there.
Chris
Mm-hmm, I remember when I was young, I was really good at remembering everything I needed to do, and I remember my journey it went from remembering I could remember all my meetings for the week to learning that I had to start writing some things down. And that became writing on a block pad on my desk, and eventually it turned into a calendar, and we went from there. But I think our brains change as we get a little bit older. Uh, when we’re very young, we can remember that stuff, but as we start to get a little bit older, it gets harder and harder, doesn’t it?
Marci
Well, I think that’s because we have so much more going on in our brains. I mean that when you were ten years old or 20 years old, you only had 20 years’ worth of stuff. As you get older and older, and you get involved in more things and you have more experience behind you. Uhm, there’s just more stuff to remember, so it gets harder. And nowadays, with everything that’s going on from the latest cat meme to, you know, everything, there’s we have so much more input, there’s so much more television channels, there’s so much more uhm, internet things and a world to access rather than just your local area. But it’s impressive that we don’t get more overwhelmed than we are.
Chris
Coming out, it’s like a firehose nowadays, isn’t it?
Marci
Yeah, yeah.
It’s not a trickle and I think part of it is technology and part of it is just edit older. There’s more stuff. There’s more people that you’ve known. There’s more farther reach on everything that happens in your world.
Chris
So, what advice would you give to someone there that say they’re young, maybe they just got out of high school, going into college, and they’re trying to remember everything. What would you guide them?
Marci
Well, I would start by telling them they need some form of calendar or app. Certainly, since they’re already carrying their phone around all the time, an app makes more sense. The two that I like, I hey, they’re free, I’m a financial literacy person. I’m telling people to spend less money and save their money, So certainly, start with the free apps and see if they do what you need them to do, but build in that habit of using them to manage your time and your due date.
Chris
And where would you suggest they look for these apps?
Marci
Oh, they’re on the play store. Uhm, they’re on, I don’t know what it on the apple is because I’m sure if these apps don’t exist specifically on Apple, they there are very similar ones that are probably free or very low cost as well.
Chris
Yeah, on the Apple App Store, I think it’s called, yeah.
Marci
OK and download the free ones and try them. Obviously, like anything you download, try, and make sure you know where it’s coming from and get some references from friends, I mean, the Internet is a great place. I go on Facebook on a regular basis and say hey, I need uhm, I’m looking for an X. Does anyone have any experience and exposure that they can make a recommendation of what to do or what not to do to get what I need and talking to your friends is a great place to start.
Chris
I know a lot of the apps can be quite prescriptive and get rather complicated, and some of them are just really simple. Uh, what would you say, are you a keep it simple type person or do you like more gadgets to play with?
Marci
Well, I love gadgets, but when I’m doing a job, I want it simple, I want it to work, I want to know every time I open it up, it’s going to have the information. I don’t want it to be complex because I have too many other things to do. So, these are both straightforward apps. They probably both have capabilities that I don’t use Or don’t use yet because it’s not what I need, but I would keep it simple stupid every time.
The KISS principle.
Chris
Keep it simple. Seriously.
Marci
OK, that’s, I like that one better. I like that better.
Chris
Um, just for the audience said, would you like to share the specific name of the apps again, just in case there are one, look them up.
Marci
Sure so, the to-do is a to-do list. And it’s, uh, if you’re looking for it on the Play Store, you’ll see it is a white circle with a blue check mark. And the Google Calendar is just the Google Calendar, I think, if you use Google on your computer or phone, you probably already have access to it. Uhm, it’s in all the Google Apps down the right side of your screen, when you docs and all the other, and it’s a nice straightforward calendar.
Chris
Thank you very much. Would you mind sharing some of the successes that you a credit to your system?
Marci
Every time I get somewhere on time, every time I remember to, uh, show up to a podcast and remember what we are talking about, Uhm, it’s a win. Every time I have to make a call to a client, or a contact and I have put it in my calendar, it’s a huge win. Every time I run into someone have a conversation and say that would be a great blog post and I put it in there and write it up, I mean all, all I do is win. I mean that’s really the way to describe these apps. Is everything about them helps me to achieve what I’m trying to work toward.
Chris
I love that you said that all I do is win. That’s so wonderful to hear. It’s so upbeat. How do you stay accountable to using the system regularly. Do you ever fall off the wagon?
Marci
You know it’s, I don’t. Every morning I have to look and see what I’m doing that day.
But that’s my personality is I need to know what I’m doing because I want to make sure that I’m where I’m supposed to be. I hate letting someone else down by not being where they expect me to be. So, so, it was back when I had the Franklin planner back when you know way back probably before I had it, it was always the first thing I did is OK, what have I got going today and if I have something going early in the morning, I give myself a reminder at 6:00 o’clock the night before I’ll put it in my calendar and say don’t forget you’ve got something earlier in the morning, so I made sure I set the alarm clocks. But I think like anything else, it’s a habit.
The nice thing is you can set alarms. You could set yourself an alarm at 7:00 AM or 8:00 AM or whatever time you need it that says check your calendar or check your To Do List and have it built in, that’s what these are here for. So, if you need that extra little help to remind you to build those habits, that’s part of the app, that’s it just helps. Every morning and I’m always picking up my phone, so I leave the notifications for the calendar on.
So, when I pick up my phone, I see that there’s a calendar notification and it reminds me again what it is I’m doing or what time and you can set the notification timing.
This is something that only needs 5 minutes. Notification, this needs 1/2-hour notification. Whatever it is, it’s a very flexible app
Chris
So, you’ve talked about then really being accountable to the system that you’re using.
How do you think that that’s affect your ability to be accountable to your goals that you’ve set for yourself?
Marci
Uhm, it’s everything. It’s because if I’m checking and looking then then I’m being reminded of what my goals and what my timeline is for these goals.
I like to put even on the task list, I can put in parentheses.
You know I want this to be an August, or I want this to be a September or whatever it is.
So that even if I’m looking at it and it’s not something I have to do just yet, I’ve kind of given myself an idea of a timeline so that I can look at it and you know this is, this is all stuff I’m doing for myself. I chose to create my business; I chose to set these goals of educational and the different ways of reaching out to people. So, these are goals I set so I’m interested and connected to achieving them. So, this is my tool, It’s helping me hold myself accountable and that’s that makes all the difference if someone holding you accountable to something that you don’t want to do, I’m sure it feels different than something that you’re holding yourself accountable for and just using the tools as a resource to help me do and be what I’m trying to achieve.
Chris
Do you incorporate rewards into your goals when you achieve them to give yourself a reward?
Marci
I celebrate, I celebrate every time I achieve something. But celebrating can sometimes be just stepping back and saying, yeah, I really did that, I got that done. It doesn’t have to be going out and spending money again back to that being, being on top of your finances. Part of me, so I don’t want to go out and have it be physical reward but I acknowledge to myself, and I celebrate sometimes there’s a happy dance involved. I’m not going to lie and just acknowledge, I think, I think that’s a huge thing. So many times, we have big tasks, and you don’t necessarily acknowledge the small steps, the small goals before you can reach the big goals.
And it’s easy to give up because that big goal just seems so far away, no matter how much you’ve achieved. So, so very much I celebrate, all those little victories, achieving those steps and make sure I appreciate myself for what I’ve done to do that.
Chris
Yeah, I gotta know with the happy dance, is that something that the, the family, your friends get to witness as well?
Marci
My family has probably seen the happy dance more than more than they care to.
Chris
I love it.
Marci
but you know it’s important to acknowledge and celebrate your victories.
Chris
So, my friend says a goal planning system is a total waste of time.
What would you tell him or her?
Marci
Then I guess they don’t have any goals. I mean, that’s fine if you don’t have any goals, if you don’t have anything that you need to set and you’re doing fine the way you are, you can’t hh, tell someone what works for them. So, if they don’t feel they need anything, or they don’t feel that they would get anything out of it, then then I guess that’s on them. And at some point, in time, maybe they’ll have a goal that they do want to get more structured toward.
Uhm, but it has to be their choice. That’s why the system helps me hold myself accountable to myself. It was holding me accountable to somebody else, you know, unless it was a job with a paycheck or some other motivator at the end, what’s the differences?
Chris
It’s really all about being accountable to ourselves, isn’t it?
It’s much different than accountable to someone else just isn’t genuine, is it?
Marci
No, no, it’s not and it’s we all have things we want.
We all have bigger things we want.
They’re all different, you know.
But we all have things we want.
We all have things that if we broke it down, we could find a path of small goals to reach a big goal. And maybe sometimes people just think that big goal is so out of reach, or they think it’s so far away it’ll happen on its own and they’re not aware of the steps to break it down. And using goal planning software makes me look at it and say OK this is what I want to achieve, how am I going to get there?
And then all of a sudden, I can start seeing, OK, well, to do this, I’ve got to do this first and this to do this, this other thing has to happen, and it and it helps me plot out the trail to get there.
Chris
Turns it from a dream or wish to a project.
That’s doable, doesn’t it?
Marci
Right, exactly, exactly.
As I tell people, how do you eat an elephant?
Chris
One bite at a time.
Marci
One bite at a time.
Chris
Marci, is there anything that we’ve missed that you’d like to share about your system?
Marci
Hey, don’t be afraid to try something new. And you know, I think my system is great, but if it doesn’t work for you, try something else. There’s so many systems out there and it makes such a huge difference to be organized. The world is a noisy place, and this really helps to break it down into something that can be focused on.
Chris
Great advice, great advice.
Marci, would you like to tell us about your business and services you offer and how you’d like people to contact you to find out more?
Marci
Sure, you can reach me at moneymarci.com. That’s my website and that’s MONEYMARCI.com. Or you can find my book on Amazon. It’s money Marci’s guide to financial literacy, and it’s all about helping people to understand more about the money decisions that that they have to deal with on a daily. And take care and of their finances and own their money.
Chris
Thanks so much.
Marci
Thank you.